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This threads goal is to document how far i got in programming this indie, to have a clean start (my sourcecode is a mess) and to figure out the last missing pieces.

If gg53 doesen’t bother i will ask him a few things on skype that are still unclear to me. These questions will be simple yes or no questions, so that he doesn’t need to spend much time answering them. If he doesn’t want to answer any questions anymore about this indicator, i hope we can find the solution together in this thread.

Since we all use different programming languages we will use some kind of pseudocode.

Something like: search set2 for current fractal
count current fractal in set2
count current fractal+1 in set2
if count of current fractal > count of current fractal+1 do this and that

In this way everyone can participate, even people who can’t write a line of code

After christmas i will start with the creation of the database.
To be sure that we all start with the same database i will export my database and upload it as an sql file

Oh and before i forget. Happy Christmas everyone.
I’ll be back after christmas

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Reserved for further information

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and reserved too

[Moderator]

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Sounds good Muuh! Thanks for starting this thread!
I will be closely following

Focus, Patience, Determination & Order in chaos

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You can bother GG53 on Skype – messages and/or screen sharing.

I already invited everyone that want to ask/see the ForexGT_Arrow to a live Skype screen sharing session.

G.

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Nice topic, thanks muuh. Subscribe.

[gg53]

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The BASIC of BASICS… ForexGT_Arrow:

Following a conversation with Smallcat: it seems that there are some misundestanding about the basic logic.

A “VALID” FRACTAL is an un-interupted sequence of 5 bars with a known pattern. No “gaps” are alowed in a valid fractal.

Gaps creates a “broken” chain. If the sequence is broken – there can’t be a “true” fractal.

Gaps of any kind among the 5 bars that form a fractal – makes that fractal invalid.

 

ZZ is a sequence of valid fractals, that starts and ends with a fractal. It’s Ok to have gaps in a ZZ.

ZZ is Ok to have gaps, fractal is NOT Ok to have gaps.

 

It was mentioned several times in the original thread on FuckersFactory, but maybe with not enough emphasis.

I don’t rely on this or that indicator results:  in order for the system to work properly and logically – it MUST follow those BASIC rules.

 

G.

• This reply was modified 8 years, 5 months ago by gg53.
• This reply was modified 8 years, 5 months ago by gg53.
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[Participant]

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Thanks G, this basic is needed to prepare a useful database. So, my script at FF  (thread Fractal, ZZ, pissing dog) was wrong. It does not check for this valid fractal    Sorry …

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smallcat do you want to change this in your indicator?
the fractals based on close instead of high/low has to be implemented too.

and when i think about it, what about zigzag?
a zigzag works with high/low and ends on a fractal that is high/low, but we use a fractal based on close.

so that leads me to my first three questions
1. do we create the database with zigzag based on close?
2. are incoming fractals in realtime based on close?
3. are incoming zigzags in realtime based on close?

[smallcat]

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Hi muuh,

Good idea. I think i will try to create it, but until new year i am so busy with other things. (so many things to do, have just a little time   ).
We will discuss about it  if you are interested my friend.

Thanks

• This reply was modified 8 years, 5 months ago by smallcat.

[smallcat]

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muuh wrote:

so that leads me to my first three questions
1. do we create the database with zigzag based on close?
2. are incoming fractals in realtime based on close?
3. are incoming zigzags in realtime based on close?

 

Hi my friend,
My opinion:

1) It will be better, like most of indicator calculation based on “candle close”
2) No, but we can use “fractal close” indicator in attachment
3) No, may be we can use “zz close” or create something similar indicator looking for fractal at close price

Please see image below, it can speak more than me

 

• This reply was modified 8 years, 5 months ago by smallcat.
• This reply was modified 3 years, 5 months ago by lohnere.

[dtlase]

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Hello friends, and thanks to gg53.

In my opinion, pls correct me if i am wrong. I think we can allow a gap of  0.00005  since most of the close of bar are not equal to the open of the next bar.

Prev Close <> New bar Open    This is also gap.  So we restrict the gap that is allowed. Also remember that mt4 are different… 5 digits and 4 digits.

dtlase

 

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[smallcat]

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Hi mates,

I am testing my new tools at the moment. It is the ZigZag_Closed_Modified  (based on ZigZag_Closed  by Emonts ) and need Fractal_Closed (by Emonts too). Thanks Emonts.

I will check the result first, before posting it.

 

• This reply was modified 8 years, 5 months ago by smallcat.

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@dtlase,

I am not sure about the gap. I just think that the gap means “non existence of bar” , this will happen during weekends (Saturdays and Sundays). But, may be i am wrong too

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Thanks smallcat.
The difference between High/Low and Closed is smaller than i thaught.

When we have closed fractal and zigzag in our database, we should use closed fractal and zigzag in realtime too.
That makes more sense for me. on the other hand maybe using closed data in our database and high/low in realtime makes this indi magically work.

In steve hopwoods forum GG gives an example what he means with missing data. we need 5 bars next to each other for a fractal. A weekend breaks this and makes it invalid. The difference between the close and the open of the next bar can be broker dependend. so i wouldn’t say that this makes a fractal invalid

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Thanks mate, i will try to look at steve’s website. The modified ZZ closed is just to “choose” where the ZZ must end, as GG said “a confirm ZZ is a ZZ that has fractal at its end”.  May be this approach is not the right one …

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The more you dig into it the more questions you have :(

Do you guys remember Poorpluto in the old DNA thread (ForexFactory).
He didn’t know how to do the pattern match and just used length prediction and next bar prediction.It worked for him! Without knowing about valid fractals, closed fractals, average bar size, …….. I don’t know how he did it and what he did. Maybe he used closed Fratals, maybe not, I don’t know

I know that this algo is so simple.
But the more I think about it. The more complex it becomes. The more I’m making it wrong.

Smallcat:
I’ll soon upload the SQL with OHLC until we know for sure how the database has to look.
It doesn’t make sense uploading set 1, set 2, set 3 when has to be changed a few thousand times.
With OHLC everyone can use it as a base for trying different things.

[lohnere]

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Ok GG confirmed that we are using fractals and zigzags based on close to create our database.
Important is that only valid fractals are used and only valid ZigZags. A ZigZag is valid when it starts/end on a valid fractal.

• This reply was modified 3 years, 5 months ago by lohnere.

[lohnere]

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I uploaded the CSV file for filling the database. I created this file with Smallcats Indi, modified to use only valid close Fractals and ZigZag.

Note that i haven’t filtered ZigZags that don’t end on a Fractal.
You have to handle the situation where two Fractals appear at one bar.
You have to handle the situation with Doji Bars.

Edit: Packed file due to file limit

• This reply was modified 3 years, 5 months ago by lohnere.

[Participant]

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Hi muuh,

Good work. Do you use the last indicator i uploaded (ZZ_closed_mod) ?  I just found a strange result (AUDUSD M1), and i have asked GG about this. GG has confirmed that the zz leg is wrong, so my indicator is still wrong my friend.

As we can see in the picture below, at the yellow arrow, it is an up ZZ, so the ZZ end must have a bigger price than the ZZ start . But it has smaller price, so this is an error …

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I have seen this strange behaviour with the build in ZigZag once before. When i refreshed the chart, for one second the ZigZag was right and in the next moment it jumped to the wrong position. Then I refreshed again, ZigZag was at the right position, one second later back to the wrong position again.
I would say this is a bug deep inside MT4. Just delete this ZigZag

No I use the unmodified version. I think the one from emonts.
The Fractal indi is from VlanFX (SteveHopwood)

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I am waiting for a reply from GG on Skype what to do with the ZigZags/Swings that miss the valid Fractal by one bar.
In my opinion if they miss the valid Fractal even by one bar, the aren’t valid

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Thanks muuh. I tested the “FractalClosingPrice” compare it with “Fractal_Closed” . It seem FractalClosingPrice is better, it does not take the gap in weekend. But i do not understand, at some place, it did not define a fractal (although i think it must be a fractal, or may be i am wrong ) ?

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I can’t see that in your chart, but it looks like that the bar in question has his close as high as the previous bar.

Yesterday I wanted to upload the SQL file but I made a mistake in creating Set3.
And GG seems busy with new year stuff. He hasn’t answered yet about the ZigZags that miss the fractal by one bar. As I said earlier I decided that these are invalid ZigZags, even if they miss a valid by only one bar. What surprised me is that roughly 10 percent off the ZigZag swings are filtered out by this

This takes long checking for bugs, double checking the database and I haven’t even started figuring out how we do the Pattern Match, the first step.
Thats my nightmare, my worst enemy.

And since these aren’t enough problems, it looks like I have to cope with the after effects of some ligth depressions I had the last years. I tell you, even if you fought successfull against depression. It takes a long time to recover from this because it happens often that you make one step forward and then two steps back.

So I’m trying as hard as i can to get this thing to work. I have the free time to do this and I set myself the goal to get this running before the next weekend. But when it takes a little bit longer then I thought/you thought then please be patient. I’m going through a rough phase and need as much help as I can

Puuh that was a long post. It seems I had to let my mind open up a bit. Hope you guys don’t bother

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Smallcat, have you seen GG’s reply on dtlase Activity Stream

Hello friends, and thanks to gg53.
In my opinion, pls correct me if i am wrong. I think we can allow a gap of 0.00005 since most of the close of bar are not equal to the open of the next bar.

Prev Close <> New bar Open This is also gap. So we restrict the gap that is allowed. Also remember that mt4 are different… 5 digits and 4 digits.

dtlase

GG answered: “You are right”

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