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Here is a question to ask FXJay.. what is the difference between a Fractal of H size and TZ of H size? The main difference is that the fractal doesn’t count for midbars but FXJay ignores the midbar TZs anyways. Why use TZ over a fractal indicator?
The way I see it, they are almost the same, the only difference is that the TZ wouldn’t show as many TZs as a fractal indicator would making fractal based indicator superior to TZs.
Focus, Patience, Determination & Order in chaos
Here is a question to ask FXJay.. what is the difference between a Fractal of H size and TZ of H size? The main difference is that the fractal doesn’t count for midbars but FXJay ignores the midbar TZs anyways. Why use TZ over a fractal indicator? The way I see it, they are almost the same, the only difference is that the TZ wouldn’t show as many TZs as a fractal indicator would making fractal based indicator superior to TZs.
If we do not include the Mid TZ, then fractal and TZ are similar. But TZ has left & right wing (based on the ‘h’) , which can give us the “time” prediction. This is an important thing in my opinion.
[ LearnAlways ]March 8, 2015 at 2:31 am #5478Here is a question to ask FXJay.. what is the difference between a Fractal of H size and TZ of H size? The main difference is that the fractal doesn’t count for midbars but FXJay ignores the midbar TZs anyways. Why use TZ over a fractal indicator? The way I see it, they are almost the same, the only difference is that the TZ wouldn’t show as many TZs as a fractal indicator would making fractal based indicator superior to TZs.
Hi Saver0,
I don’t think FXJay will be pleased if I asked anymore questions like this, sorry I can’t help. Pls refer to below msg which I posted sometime ago, I would like to respect his wishes lest he be pissed off. Sorry, though personally I am interested in his reply regarding this question of yours, haha.
but please note that I won’t be answering questions back and forth through an intermediary. Whoever wants to ask me something can do it in public on ForexFactory or on my FB account for the people banned from FF.
 This reply was modified 4 years ago by LearnAlways.
I only know I know nothing
Skype: learnalways@outlook.com[ LearnAlways ]March 8, 2015 at 3:16 am #5485Ok, have anyone thought of making a TZ Oscillator or Fractal Oscillator??? Something like this??? Hopefully no one laughs at this funny idea.
I only know I know nothing
Skype: learnalways@outlook.com[ ]March 8, 2015 at 7:53 am #5516Just wondering…
How many people take account of “k”?
So far I only know the conversation between saver0 and FXEZ…
maybe all people are chasing fxjay and I am the only person chasing the shadow of EURUSDD
[ LearnAlways ]March 8, 2015 at 8:41 am #5518Just wondering… How many people take account of “k”? So far I only know the conversation between saver0 and FXEZ… maybe all people are chasing fxjay and I am the only person chasing the shadow of EURUSDD
Maybe the reason being most of us don’t really understand what is k? Is it the no. of pips price retrace without clearing the TZ? Thereby if price at eg. 20 pips near PTZ or CTZ, we should enter and trade away from the PTZ or CTZ something like pullback?
If u don’t mind pls share your understanding or knowledge. Help on this subject will be greatly appreciated.
Best Regards,
LearnAlways
I only know I know nothing
Skype: learnalways@outlook.comJust wondering… How many people take account of “k”? So far I only know the conversation between saver0 and FXEZ… maybe all people are chasing fxjay and I am the only person chasing the shadow of EURUSDD
Maybe the reason being most of us don’t really understand what is k? Is it the no. of pips price retrace without clearing the TZ? Thereby if price at eg. 20 pips near PTZ or CTZ, we should enter and trade away from the PTZ or CTZ something like pullback? If u don’t mind pls share your understanding or knowledge. Help on this subject will be greatly appreciated. Best Regards, LearnAlways
I am agree that “k” is the retrace, but it should be small. So, may be the average of them ?
Maybe the reason being most of us don’t really understand what is k? Is it the no. of pips price retrace without clearing the TZ?
Yes, in my opinion, this is the meaning of k. I’m thinking about a concept to calculate a reasonable estimation of k statistically. Keywords here are estimation and statistically. It’s all about the old battle to find a good balance of R:R and win probability.
Statistics I’ve calculated so far in my Recurrence Stats Indicator are very simple and straightforward. I think that a few more dimensions should be added. Keyword here is few.
What I definitely would include is potential and confirmed midbar zones, just because they provide an excellent shortterm directional bias of a swing. Coding this into a function and an indicator should be the next tasks for me.
And talking about ‘adding more dimensions’: I don’t think MQ4 is a good language to code a multidimensional model. I’m considering to use (later this year) MT4 scripts or indicators as a source for raw data and then work out strategies using appropriate OLAP tools. See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Online_analytical_processing
Just an idea for the future … For the moment: KISS rules!
Cheers, simplex
A good trader is a realist who wants to grab a chunk from the body of a trend, leaving top and bottomfishing to people on an ego trip. (Dr. Alexander Elder)
Yes, in my opinion, this is the meaning of k. I’m thinking about a concept to calculate a reasonable estimation of k statistically. Keywords here are estimation and statistically. It’s all about the old battle to find a good balance of R:R and win probability.
Hi simplex,
Have you been able to reproduce similar statistics to what Saver0 produced in the first post of this thread?
http://penguintraders.com/groups/tzandss/forum/topic/proofofeurusddsequationand97/
I had a good exchange with Saver0 in that thread and was able to reproduce his stats and indicator. It seems like forever ago when I was working on this stuff and I guess it’s still sort of on the backburner for me. Basically the conclusion that I drew from that exchange was that k is more of an input rather than an unknown to be solved in the equation. Basically you decide how large a k to use, and this value will in turn be used to filter the TZs that are chosen based on this ‘distance’, k, and thus will affect the statistics that the equation produces.
It seems like a lot of the people who have been or are struggling with the notion of k are treating k more as an esoteric concept, or a mysterious unknown to be solved, rather than as simply an input that you decide. Pick a ‘distance’, call it k, plug it into the equation, done! I’m not sure if this applies to you but some others in this thread sound like they’re still lost in “what is k” land. If anyone is still having trouble understanding how k fits into the calculations, take a look at the interaction between Saver0 and me in the thread referenced above and try to follow along with how my thoughts evolved regarding TZs.
Have you been able to reproduce similar statistics to what Saver0 produced in the first post of this thread?
Hi FXEZ,
To be honest: no, I haven’t, just because I followed a different path. After some initial enthusiasm about 97%+ win rate on few trades back in the FF days I soon decided to head for 75% or 80% on a much higher frequency of trades. I’m sure that both strategies could work, I just chose the latter because I felt more comfortable with. A purely intuitive choice at the moment, with no stats behind.
Basically the conclusion that I drew from that exchange was that k is more of an input rather than an unknown to be solved in the equation.
I basically agree! What I’m actually thinking about is to estimate an appropriate value of k. Compare it with a classic stop loss calculation based on ATR: SL = m * ATR(). All I have to do is to make a decision about the value of m. Should it be 1.0, or 3.0, or maybe 1.618? This certainly depends on your strategy, entry timing, etc.
I believe that the same is true for k, and in my opinion there’s abolutely nothing esoteric or magic connected with it. Before starting any multidimensional concept, I’ll try to make it work based on two inputs: directional bias provided by the very latest confirmed or potential midbar zones, and the distance between current bar’s open price and top/bottom of the latest potential fractal zones. I’m planning to set up k as a fraction of that distance, provided the distance is large enough to be considered for a practical trade.
I don’t feel very comfortable with setting an absolute k to a constant value. Markets can act in a very violent manner, and I hope that a dynamic k calculated with a simple ruleset could provide more robust settings in changing market modes. Before experimenting with this assumption I need the directional bias indicator I mentioned before. Hope to have it working later this day.
Just my current thoughts, and I would be happy to carry this discussion on.
A good trader is a realist who wants to grab a chunk from the body of a trend, leaving top and bottomfishing to people on an ego trip. (Dr. Alexander Elder)
[ ]March 10, 2015 at 6:57 am #5622“All you have to do is estimate a value for K or let it depend on the current bar”
eurusdd
“If the forces of demand are very close, almost equal then there is a way to find the optimal value for k. That is why I trade only eurusd because demand and supply are almost equal. That is the strength of bulls and bears are almost equal in every state of the market. How you calculate k is up to you. That will differentiate you from another person applying the same principle. Keep that secret. ”
K sounds like spread to me.
[ ]March 10, 2015 at 8:13 am #5625So using the confirmed TZ as S/R entries with an additional sentiment indy and targeting PTZ in the direction of sentiment?
So then the big questions has to be addressed. What is the best tool for trend sentiment???
Cots, technical lines, Options open interest/volume, currency strength (which is what FX Jay is currently testing)
Trend related to timeframe traded.
Intraday – currency strength
4hrdaily – Open InterestUnconventional twitter reported trades for sentiment
Is the TZ used for entry also where the stop loss is derived or no stop loss and add positions as price retraces #pips beyond first entry given the sentiment is still strong for the direction of the PTZ
what triggers an loss exit if not stop loss?having the statistical advantage of one over the other would help me. I know very little these things, but I feel if you have these tools you can apply them to many different systems and turn them into winners.
I’m rambling…
[ ]March 10, 2015 at 8:45 am #5626Visual
[ ]March 10, 2015 at 8:51 am #5629Have you guys thought about eyeballing PTZ before choosing h? Use a blank chart and eyeball to forming zones before running probability and statistics on it with the indicators, based on the h the market gives. WOWZERS!!!!!
[ LearnAlways ]March 10, 2015 at 9:37 am #5633Have you guys thought about eyeballing PTZ before choosing h? Use a blank chart and eyeball to forming zones before running probability and statistics on it with the indicators, based on the h the market gives. WOWZERS!!!!!
Hi DollarGeneral,
Do u actually meaning eyeballing areas of blank space between prices then deciding on the value of h to fill these spaces?
Best Regards,
LearnAlways
I only know I know nothing
Skype: learnalways@outlook.com[ ]March 10, 2015 at 11:08 am #5634See the attachment. Still thinking on it but…
What are your thought???
K sounds like spread to me.
A better term is “distance”. Every time you see the term “K” replace it with the term “distance in pips.” Combine that with the definition given by Saver0 / Eurusdd regarding the midbar transients being the only true transients, and you basically have the whole picture, demystified, in two sentences.
All you have to do is estimate a value for K or let it depend on the current bar
Yes: the latter is basically what I’m thinking about for the moment. Only difference would be that I maybe include one or two predecessors of the current bar. Obviously the current bar will provide a possible entry price. So the latest one or two predecessors should provide upper and lower thresholds for an entry.
Still a bit coarse, but I’m working on the details.
A good trader is a realist who wants to grab a chunk from the body of a trend, leaving top and bottomfishing to people on an ego trip. (Dr. Alexander Elder)
Have you guys thought about eyeballing PTZ before choosing h?
I would certainly consider eyeballing if I had an idea how to teach an EA to do that.
A good trader is a realist who wants to grab a chunk from the body of a trend, leaving top and bottomfishing to people on an ego trip. (Dr. Alexander Elder)
A better term is “distance”. Every time you see the term “K” replace it with the term “distance in pips.”
Yes, a dynamic distance based on simple rules, IMO. And maybe (not necessarily!) spread could be added to it.
A good trader is a realist who wants to grab a chunk from the body of a trend, leaving top and bottomfishing to people on an ego trip. (Dr. Alexander Elder)
simple rules like atr(n) * factor?
Yes, at least for the start I’d like to keep it as simple as that, however based on the latest PTZ.
A good trader is a realist who wants to grab a chunk from the body of a trend, leaving top and bottomfishing to people on an ego trip. (Dr. Alexander Elder)
All you have to do is estimate a value for K or let it depend on the current bar
Yes: the latter is basically what I’m thinking about for the moment. Only difference would be that I maybe include one or two predecessors of the current bar. Obviously the current bar will provide a possible entry price. So the latest one or two predecessors should provide upper and lower thresholds for an entry. Still a bit coarse, but I’m working on the details.
I think k is for exit, not entry. It can be added/subtracted to the zone, to get the maximal / minimal value for our target. But, i could be wrong ….
[ ]March 11, 2015 at 11:51 am #5668K is the most important number in the hole TZ conzept.
The K value gives you the amount of retrace you can expect in a possible zone. If you know the K value, you know how much the market will retrace if a possible zone forms.
Thats why EURUSDD said we win if it turns out to be a TZ and we win if it isn’t a TZ. In both cases we win.
How to find the best K value and how to handle the drawdown so that we can use all the margin and leverage we have to make the most out of it? Thats what I want to know too……..
[ LearnAlways ]March 11, 2015 at 3:01 pm #5669Because of price recurrent characteristics, wicks are formed? So maybe the clue lies in candlestick wicks?
Using kprsa Recurrent Statistics v4.3 we can use “Resolved possible transient zone UP/DOWN” arrows to detect momentum, stats set at h left =1, h right =4. (based on simplex stats) (with a filter condition only when UP = arrow is getting higher and higher & DOWN = arrow getting lower and lower)
Can k value be a range in the distance of pips between the candlestick wicks? E.g. Distance between H4 wicks measured in pips(range)?
Pls see attached pic (Yellow lines drawn in H4 TF manually to illustrate price momentum and wicks retracement.
Just for discussion, pls pardon me if I’m wrong, thx.
 This reply was modified 4 years ago by LearnAlways.
 This reply was modified 4 years ago by LearnAlways.
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